Pro Wrestling Since 1997


What to expect when Randy Orton returns

The word is that when Randy Orton returns from his current 60-day Wellness Policy violation, he will return in a main event spot.

Orton has been wanting to turn heel again, but apparently the company is not confident enough in World Heavyweight champion Sheamus as Smackdown’s #1 babyface, so expect Orton to remain a babyface for the time being.

source: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Post Category: News

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36 Responses

  1. AJ Starr says:

    Mattyman… seriously, you don’t know the first thing about what you’re trying to say.

    Just because YOU don’t see it in the WWE, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. Who would have thought a Jersey Shore gimmick would have gotten over considering people HATE those tards? But guess what, it got over HUGE, and the WWE squashed it because THE OFFICE doesn’t think it suits their image.

    That is just a single, solitary example out of hundreds of people who did, can, would, could, etc… draw the WWE money, but THEY don’t want those people to.

    And sorry, but if millions of people are going to watch those rednecks every week logging, fishing, and digging through old and abandoned storage units… it could easily get over in the WWE. Oh wait… isn’t that Nascar minus the weight?

    In any event, you can market ANYTHING to ANYONE, if you know what the hell you’re doing, and you’re willing to listen to your customers, and NOT your board room. WWE has failed on that aspect since day 1. They could have turned Hogan heel and made tens of millions of dollars off of it, but they were too chicken-**** to try. They’re doing the same thing now with Cena.

    Would someone like Dusty get over today? Yeah, he could, given an office and booker with common sense enough to know talent when they see it. If you can get 10,000 sheep to cheer a midget pulling a Looney Tunes act with Carlito… you can turn an overweight guy into a huge global star if they have the talent to pull the weight.

    Sorry you can’t see it that way, but things like that went on long before you were born. Vince McMahon is the one who ruined it for any wrestler who is not willing to spend 4-5 hours a day in the gym. Vader was a massive, HUGE star in WCW…. and became a jobber in the WWF. Sure, part of it was HBK’s fault, another part because Vince wanted to change his name and ruin his credibility… and another part was Vader’s size.

    Face it… the WWE office, and Vince himself, are complete fools. Sure, they’re #1 in a dead market. That is NOTHING to be proud of. They’re inept sight in how to book and create interest has also made them a laughing stock to their own fans, who aren’t smart enough to change the channel when they see something bad on the programs. It doesn’t make what they’re putting on TV better.

    Finally… the fans HAVE bought the shirts and put the ratings on the wrestlers. The WWE does… not… care. They pick who they want pushed, and if you don’t like it… TOUGH!!

    Remember when people were SO SICK of Triple H dominating and ruining the credibility of the wrestlers on TV? Guess what, it kept right on going! Trips was one of the lowest draws as WWF/E Champ EVER, but the WWE and a lot of marks blame it on “post Attitude Era syndrome.”

    Sorry… you make great TV and you make superstars out of wrestlers who have the total package… and the ratings, merchandise revenue, and buyrates will reflect it.

    WWE is a prime example of what happens when you ignore the fans, and treat them like idiots.

  2. AJ Starr says:

    By the way… straight from Mick Foley himself, and even Vince McMahon has admitted to it. When Foley first came to the WWF, Foley said; “Why can’t I just be Cactus Jack?”

    Vince told him outright that he felt Cactus Jack could never draw a dime.

    Too bad Cactus is STILL the most popular face of Foley.

  3. Mattyman says:

    You’re right AJ, in your world, no one knows nothing. I wish I was too young to not remember when the first WWF show on television came on not even a real station. And the first match they featured was Hulk Hogan beating the Iron Shiek. I wish I was too young not to remember a Ric Flair before he had a belt, wrestling on Mid Atlantic Championship Wrestling that came on every Saturday locally here. Paul Jones, etc. I wish I was too young to remember one of ESPN’s flagship shows being the AWA. I wish I was too your to remember watching the week after David Von Erich killed himself. Yeah they ran WCCW wrestling here locally too.

    So yeah, moron, you’re right. I don’t know the first thing about what I’m trying to say. And to your other point, Cactus Jack didn’t draw a damned dime till he got to a bingo hall working for ECW. Which, incidentally, was on the local stations in Charlotte once a week too. And oddly curious show of spot-dropping characters who froze in MSG. In other words, put them in a crowd larger than 3000 and they looked bad. And frankly, Mankind was better. And honestly, Foley wasn’t a bad one either. Pardon me, AJ, but I’ll point to the dozen or so classic matches they still run of him in the AWA and UWF with people going WTF? So no, I don’t blame Vince for watching the same matches that are still on TV now, and thinking to himself, “Hey, I’m in those markets too and those crowds were deader than 4 o’clock for you. Let’s try something different.”

    I don’t think they ignore the fans. I think you just don’t like what they’re booking right now so you’re basically hating on them. What you don’t get and frankly a lot of the whiners I read regularly don’t get, is they have 5 sets of belts and 200 people.

    Bottom line is the bottom line. They don’t get over with YOU. They get over with enough people to pay the bills and dividends. You talking about 10s of millions of dollars in a multi-billion dollar company says all I need to hear. I don’t think they treat fans like idiots. The main event several times has been a ROH reunion for goodness sakes. I think you just have issues. Here’s an idea, start your own promotion, run it how you think it should be run, and you too can then comment. It’s worked so well for Paul, Jim, and Jeff so far.

    It seems to me that at least 1 of those three could have done something that sticks. TNA, getting better but still in the land of suck. ROH, insignificant, and Paul’s trying to get his face on TV now.

    Daniel Bryan got pops and got noticed. It took Punk a longer time than I would have liked to get over but he’s over. Edge got over and recovered from a crappy gimmick. Sheamus got over. What do these guys have in common? I’ve been to live events. And that’s not BS Sheamus was helping set the ring up. I’m sorry whatever prima donna you’re humping over can’t be bothered.

    And you think I’m some 20 something marking all over Cena. That’s the lunacy of the whole thing. Just.. plain.. stupid. And that’s probably why you feel ignored. You should be. You’re clueless.

  4. AJ Starr says:

    Funny… you say it can’t be done, then turn around and tell me you’re obviously older than I am, and have watched way back in the 80s?

    I can’t take anything you say seriously then. You can’t take a stance like that with 30 plus years experience watching wrestling, and then tell me it can’t be done. That’s not only laughable, but makes you a troll.

    You’re also the worst kind; One who isn’t even trying, and is clueless to their own incompetence. Please go try your “putting someone down” act on a lesser intelligent person. The odds of it doing anything but making me laugh are slim to none.

  5. Mattyman says:

    And by the way, I don’t like the product right now at all. But it’s not my rotation. I don’t think PG works with a violent product. There’s no politically correct way to whip someone. Attitude worked and with cable the way it is now, it could work much better. But Vince seems to be interested in kids and they grow up and still spend money.

    This is just not my rotation right now. They haven’t created replacements for key parts. So, they are trying to rehash characters that barely worked then and don’t work now. Mr. Perfect worked because Curt could be that guy. The Genius worked because of Poffo. Those are two recycled gimmicks I see that are failing.

    You’re not going to get rid of Orton because lineage pays. It gets people like my dad to keep watching. Rhodes is completely talentless all the way around. He can’t carry a mic or a match. Ted has a shot but he needs to get healthy. They need to put Paul on a shelf for a month or two and pull him out behind the fall sweeps. I like his concept right now. But it’s too soon. I’m glad they finally let him win. Losing to Mysterio is embarrassing.

    They need to let the people who were alive and active and making money before cable book the shows. But they don’t. Here’s the kicker. I’m 41, met my wife 3 years ago. She couldn’t stand wrestling. About 3 months ago she finally sat down to watch a show with me and dad. This is a person who has NEVER seen a match in her life. She saw Punk, and she kinda got into that. Cena comes on to close the night, now she’s buying the PPVs. Why? She’s sold on that concept. And I don’t know about the rest of the guys here, but I spend more money on what she wants than what I want.

    Let me say this again. I don’t like what I see right now. But, what I do understand is rotations. Mine will come around again. Right now, this one appeals to my wife. And, at least I have someone to enjoy this with for many years to come. And that’s what the business is all about.

  6. Mattyman says:

    No, AJ, you started that, and I finished it. You’re part of a crowd here that is real good behind a computer, but if Vince handed you the book tomorrow, the show would be in the toilet in 3 weeks. You talk about “classic examples” Hogan as a heel. He could have made 10s of millions off that. Okay, let’s throw away the near billion he made for 10s of millions. And by the way, Hogan and Bischoff are credited with single-handedly taking a company down that was regularly handing Vince his lunch. And Hogan was a heel there. So, that’s it, I’m calling you on it.

    Why couldn’t he be Cactus Jack? Because I can lay out a dozen matches in a sold out arena that was quiet as a church for old Cactus Jack. That’s why. The crowd just wasn’t into it. Mankind, the Rock and Sock connection, over. If it wasn’t for Extreme, he’d have had to be Mick Foley with a derangement the rest of his career.

    There you go, AJ, both of your smarter than me examples in the toilet. Got anymore you want to try to make a point with?

    I’m serious. I want some real examples my sage. Give me someone who is the total package in that company that’s not at least mid-card right now? There’s some talent that has a shot. But, they’re too busy looking pretty to pay dues, and put the work in.

    Flair worked 364 days a year when there was no cable coverage. He got over with a broken back. Went on to win more titles probably than anyone else. But, he also worked harder than anyone else. Cena, works about 350 days a year, does all the PR. It’s no shock to people who appreciate the work that he’s in my face every week.

    I started watching the product in 1974. I remember the jobber Rocky King. It was either Paul Jones or Ray the Crippler Stevens. That was a good, 10 minute match and King weighed maybe 180.

    The difference between you and I is I recognize rotations and the kinds of fans they draw, and the retention rate being about 47-63%. And, they’ve managed to keep me for almost 40 years, and my dad for nearly 70. Your rotation will come around sooner or later AJ. Then, Vince will be a genius again.

  7. Mattyman says:

    And I checked my posts, I didn’t say it can’t be done. So, AJ, if you’re going to quote me, at least pick something I said, kid.

  8. AJ Starr says:

    I will say this first to you, Mattyman, because it bears saying as the very first thing;

    You do not know more about this business than I do. What your wall of text claims, is that by using your TV for 40 years, you have become more of an expert on wrestling than a guy who has been in the ring for more than a decade. Not only is that laughable, but let me ask you this… Would you go up to a police officer who has been on the job for over a decade, and tell him you know more about his line of work because you’ve watched Murder She Wrote, CSI, and Special Victims Unit for so many years? No… you wouldn’t have the sack to do it if you were smart enough. The same reasoning applies here. You have NO EXPERIENCE in the field or in the business, which means your TV does NOT count as a professional opinion, nor will it ever. And I would not take that tone with me, because not only does it make you look like a complete buffoon, but the fact that you’re trying to tell me that your perception of the business through the TV makes your OPINIONS better than MY EXPERIENCE…. well… again…. go up to a cop and tell him CSI makes you more knowledgeable as a cop than him being one.

    I’m sure you can sound it out in your head how much of an idiot you sound like for even trying to tell me you know more about the business from your TV than someone who lives it on a weekly basis.

    You first stated someone like Dusty could never get over anymore; Someone fat and who doesn’t look like a body builder.

    You then turned around and said you grew up on him and many, many more. WWF was more popular in THOSE DAYS with guys like Dusty, than it is today with the sculpted guys who can’t work.

    Lineage pays? Tell that to DH Smith, tell it to DiBiase, who has been buried for over a year.

    Good for your wife… she’s hooked on TODAY’S WRESTLING, which is a shell of it’s former self. Show her some old school stuff, and the first thing she will ask you is what happened.

    Mattyman, stop going on what 4th rate dirtsheet writers who NEVER spoke to anyone in WCW claim happened to that company. When Hogan was heel and the WCW Champion, it beat the living hell out of the WWF. Most of Bischoff’s ideas were stolen by Vince and used in the Attitude Era, because Eric was immediately told by Turner brass to tone it back down to PG levels.

    Have you EVER watched shoot videos? I’m sorry, but when 3/4 of the former WCW roster have the same story, and you’re telling me something entirely different… guess who I’m going to believe?

    A dozen matches? Really? So, you’re 41 years old, and an armchair quarterback mark. Good for you. EVERYONE has had a dozen or more matches with no reaction, what in the world ever made you think that was EVER going to make your “point?” Dozens of times I’ve seen 4 or 5 star matches where you could hear a fart from the bleachers because the crowd sucked. Your point on Foley is pathetic at best.

    I’ve never thought Vince was a genius, nor will I ever. Every big idea in that company was either named by Patterson, thought up him or Brisco, or stolen from another company. Please, by all means, name one thing Vince EVER came up with all by himself, that wasn’t the name “Wrestlemania.” Because to be truthful, of every big thing in the WWF/E, that is the ONLY thing Vince named himself without help. Without Patterson, there would be no Rumble or Survivor Series.

    So, sorry… for about 40 years you’ve been a sheepish mark. If you think taking a condescending attitude with me makes you think you know jack, good for you. Try BEING a wrestler for even a tenth of how long you’ve watched it, and then get back to me on what you THINK you know, because what you THINK you know is that of a couch potato who can read dirtsheets. You know absolutely nothing about how a pro-wrestling company works, should work, or will ever work, from local to global.

  9. enem V says:

    thats gotta be the most entertaining blocks of text i’ve read in ages!
    thanks guys :)

  10. Austin Aries says:

    Also what real wrestler would waste time posting on a website other than his or her own official one. It’s kind of sad really.

  11. Mattyman says:

    AJ enough of your bs okay? What promotion do you wrestle for? Do they even have a show? Or are they one of those that will be at the little YMCA in Pfafftown this week playing to a sold out crowd of 50 or maybe a little more? By the way, the bleachers comment is a pretty good tell.

    So, for about 10 years you’ve been bouncing around in a jackleg promotion that no one’s probably ever heard of which is probably in some high school gym in the corner of West Virginia. Great.. you remind me of the guy who calls in because he got his $20 router to work so he’s a network engineer now.

    What you are, is this. You made a comment, I disagreed with you, you can’t handle someone disagreeing with you and this is the Internet where everyone’s an expert when someone disagrees with them. What you don’t have is a “sack” for anyone who disagrees with you. So you’ve “been in a ring” for 10 years. So what? There’s probably 40 or 50 people on here that I can pick out that have as much and more than you. They don’t turn into complete tards when someone disagrees with them. They discuss and agree to disagree. Like one did with me when I predicted the Bryan squash at Mania. 18 seconds does count as a squash, right AJ? Did they tard out? No, it was good call. Not, I’ve been in the ring for 10 years so you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    That’s why overall I really don’t believe you. You sound like someone who got cut in life and has a chip on their shoulder. What ring have you been in? At least do some name dropping when you’re showing off your peanuts. But wait, you used caps! I should really take that seriously. You used caps, that must mean you are a professional wrestler. And I’m sure in some small podunk town you are the local legend already just waiting for the star to come through and feud with. Wait, they don’t do it that way anymore. Sorry.

    So sorry. You’re acting like some pimpled up kid living in his momma’s basement flaming on Vince and anyone who disagrees with you. And just maybe, if you say it enough, you can convince someone that you do this. I mean you’ve already got yourself convinced at this stage. So, only a couple hundred road agents, some bookers, and so on and soon you will finally get that dark match on ROH you always wanted. It’s called life, be in it. Because at this stage you know absolutely nothing about how it works, should work, or ever will work. Spend more time on your craft, less time as a short order cook waiting on your break with the next big rapper hating that you haven’t got that call yet. Grow up, I’m done with you.

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